Reply to Beyond Religion on MS site.

My Apologies everyone. Stuck this reply to someone called 'Beyond Religion' from Minishorts site here, as it is like LONG. I don't want to KILL MiniShorts site with such a long post. ORIGINAL COMMENT HERE.

Ignore it if you haven't read what it is all about. It's not that exciting.

Beyond Religion:

I’m just saying this to help you understand. Ignore it if you want.

’The problem with Christians, at least to me, is not so much about casting out homosexuals. This phenomenon is not widespread and prevalent sufficiently to make such a generalization.’

Actually, the majority of Christian Denominations DO cast out Homosexuals, or at least demand that they do not practise. So it isn’t a generalisation.

’Firstly, Christians preached to me about Jesus’ love, but when it is evident that I still do not believe in the Christian God, they threaten me with everlasting hellfire.’

Not only Christianity, but almost every religion has something similar. Muslims believe it too if you are not a Muslim, and I’ve had Muslims tell me the same thing, then you go to hell. BUT, is that an hypocrisy? I think not. Go learn the meaning of the word HYPOCRITE. It’s someone who says one thing and does another. Does the Christian tell you that you are going to hell and that another Non-Christian is going to Heaven?

If the do, then that is Hypocracy, if NOT, if they beleive ALL NON CHRISTIANS are going to Hell, then that is just the belief of the religion.

If you understand that the Christian belief of HELL is a place with the absence of God, then you’ll understand why they believe you will go to Hell.

The belief is simple. You have a choice, you can chose to be with God for eternity (in which case the Christian Belief is that you accept Jesus), or you can chose NOT to be with God.

They may be throwing the choice at you in a threatning and militant way (which I believe is the wrong way to go about it), but it doesn’t make them hypocrites.

I’ll give you an example of a similar choice and you decide if it is being hypocritical of me. Imagine you get into Big Brother [I assume you are aware of the show]. Everyone in the Big Brother house are told that the food is in the fridge, and if they are hungry they need to eat from the fridge or starve.

Now, as an agnostic you decide that the food in the fridge is a myth and as such don’t eat from it and starve to death. Now, when Big Brother told you there was food in the fridge and not eating it will result in you starving, was he being Hypocritical? Nom he just gave you the facts.

Now, I’m sorry the fundie Christians have basically beaten you over the head with their message, but it doesn’t make them hypocrites. Jesus does love you (whether you believe it or not … your choice) and Christians DO believe in Hell as well for those who don’t want to hang out with God. [It’s called a stick and carrot routine. One way - pleasure, other way - Pain. Every religion has it in some way and or form]

Why have you singled out Christianity?

Is it just because these are the only ones you are having a problem with at the moment?

When MS has mentioned Jews, Christians, Buddhist and Muslims and their hypocritical practices, you’ve waded in and zoomed on ONE religion.

Admittedly most Jews won’t try to convert you (because they believe they are the chosen ones), but I’ve met plenty of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and other religions who WILL try to convert (and they’re certainly willing to use the stick and carrot routine on anyone). [NOTE: PLENTY does not mean ALL or even a Majority].

’The second manifestation of that hypocrisy is Christians’ holier-than-thou attitude and especially their rabid compulsion to spread their faith.’

That is ALSO not hypocricy. Please learn the meaning of the word.

The ‘Holier than thou’ attitude is present in almost all religions. As people of any religion believes they are the chosen ones, they WILL believe and act HOLIER than though, as the meaning of the word HOLY means BELONGING TO GOD. So, if you were in a religion, and you believed you are the CHOSEN GROUP who are going to be SAVED and you literally BELONGED TO GOD, then you literally ARE HOLIER THAN anyone of another religion.

I don’t think I’ve met anyone of a different religion who didn’t think they had it all sorted out and I was misguided. In that sphere, they will always believe they are holier than anyone else.

Get used to that feeling, as if you convert to Chrisianity, I can guarantee you, you will get the Holier Than Thou from anyone else of a Fundamentalist nature in a differnet religion.

As for the Evangelism, that’s also a part of every religion. After all, if you were 100% sure you had the answer to life the Universe and everything, you would ALSO want to tell everyone you cared about (and every other stranger), especially when the result of NOT converting them is they go to hell.

If we imagine ourselves back in the ‘Big Brother House’ and someone wasn’t eating from the fidge, wouldn’t you try to force feed them?

Becasue that’s what is basically happening for any religion that evangilises in a militant way. They’re basically force feeding others for fear that they will go to hell.

’On her first day of work she asked me about my religion’

In Australia you could have reported her for that. We have laws against things like that, as it forms the making of an harrassment suit.

’There are people of different religions working in my department.’

How do they feel about your boss, and have they bothered to take the problem to the next level? If no one choses to act on something you consider harrassment, then you are doomed to suffer from it till you do something. In fact, have you bothered to talk to her abou tit and ASK her NOT to do it??

If you haven’t, then you should probably look at yourself. If you won’t do something, you’ll have to tolerate it, and it’ll be your fault till you do.

’I also feel that you may have been a tad unfair about the Buddhists bit.’

You do realise there have been more wars between Buddhists and Toaists than there have been between Christians and Muslims? Considering there are other things which have happened which could have been used (like the buggery of young boys by their Buddhist Priest teachers and stuff), I think they got off quite lightly.

[Those examples are not brought up to accuse all Buddhists of being bad or anything, just pointing out that there are worse apples in the barrel than the turtle releasers, so they got off without a lot worse things that may have been brought up].

’All religions have two common denominators:

1. A message of love, compassion and moral sublimity.’

NOPE! Not true. There are still religions which practice human sacrifice, and many which don’t preach love. [Time Magazine ran soem good articles on one of the ‘Human Sacrificing’ religions a few years ago. Was very intersting to see how much it was still being practiced.]

’2. An assertion of the sovereignty of the diety/ god championed in their religion (This is especially the case for monotheistic faiths) ‘

I agree about the Monotheistic faiths, but most polytheistic ones wouldn’t. In polytheistic ones they normally have ONE god who is Sovereign, and the other gods normally are spaced out in a heirarchy beneath them. After all, in Viking mythology (which started making a comeback in the 1960’s or something and still has followers in some Scandinavian countries), Oden is the Head god (Sovereign one), but Thor is the most popularly followed god.

’However, I am making that generalization in the same spirit and in the same context as your generalization about Islamic terrorists (representing Muslims) and homophobic Christians (representing Christians).’

MS didn’t use the examples to represent ALL Christians and ALL Muslims. It was neither a generalisation NOR was it meant to represent ALL people in the religion. If you had read it correctly, the examples were taking the beliefs of the religion and THROWING them back at those WHO DO NOT FOLLOW those beliefs.

It’s like when a police officer pulls someone over for speeding. It doesn’t mean everyone on the road is a speeder and breaking the law, it just means those who are pulled over are.

Like I said before, the Buddhists got off lightly considering the Dalia Lama wrote in his book condemning Homosexuality, yet there are cases of Buddhist priests buggering young boys. Are all Buddhists guilty of this? NO, just a minority, and as we can see, the Dalia Lama has actually written against the practise of homosexuality as a whole.

So keep it in context. Are the people who practice the things MS has mentioned going against their religion or NOT? That was MS’s point.

’so you are not a target of constant ridicule by the Christian fundamentalists’

Actually, that’s not always true. In-fighting amongst religious factions can lead to many a denomination trying to convert another. Which means that any Fundamentalist of any religion can often target ‘less radical’ or ‘more radical’ groups in the same religion and try to convert them to their denomination. Then, you have the fact that a LOT of Militants, whether ATHIESTS, Agnostists, or other religions target people of other religions. Just because militant Agnostics aren’t harassing you (and there are plenty of them out there), doens’t mean they aren’t there. BUT guess what, the militant ones of any religious belief arequite often the minority.

Just because you’re getting harassed at the moment, doesn’t mean they are completely surrounding you and representing a majority of Christians.

Believe me, regardless of what religion you have, you will ALWAYS have someone of another religion harassing you to convert to theirs. (And possibly even people of the same religion).

’Christian HOD leading prayers in company lunches might not affect you as strongly as it did me.’

If all they are doing is leading prayers, I’m sure you are old enough and mature enough to ignore it. I’ve been at plenty of places where people of other religions have lead prayers for something and it didn’t effect me. So yes, in the case of prayers you are being intolerant, and making yourself a hypocrite after complaining earlier that you thought it was bad that some Christians screwing their nose at incents. Why is it you call Christians out for NOT tollerating other religions practising and then won’t tolerate theirs?

If Christians are not allowed to screw up their noses at incense being burned, then YOU are not allowed to complain about them leading prayers.

If you want tolerance, then give some first.

People praying never hurts anyone. (Unless they are saying slanderous things about you … then you can sue them!)

’Doctors, Teachers, college professors etc are using their advantage and influence they wield over others due to their positions to preach Christianity.’

So because of someones vocation they should not be allowed to evangilise? What a crock! Everyone is allowed to evangalise rgardless of what they do for a living, and if people are impressed because they are a Doctor or Lawyer, then that is fine, because there are plenty of Taoist, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu who are Doctors, Lawyers etc who also evangalise their religions.

You think that is an abuse of power just because they’re not plumbers, carpenters, airline hostesses … well guess what, there are people who probalby respect their plumber or their garden or whatever who can be influence by them … to eliminate any one group from evangalising on account of their vocation is blatant bias.

’One such lecturer has to be ‘counseled’ by the college after he is found to engage in evangelism at work.’

Well, like I said, in Aussie that’s illegal, and it looks like it might be in Sin as well. Obviously a complaint was made, and like I said above, you should do the same regarding your boss if what she is doing is harassment. BUT, speak to her first and ask her NOT to evangalise to you.

’That pastor never fails to gleefully narrate the way these new Christians smashed up the Buddhist statutes after being saved.’

Go read the Tale of Monkey. In that, the Buddhists often have glee over the misfortunes of the Taoists. BUT, at the end of the day, if a convert wants to smash up their statues, that’s their business. [Provided it is their actual statue].

People of any religion will always be gleeful of what their religino consideres a triumph over another religion. What you’re describing isn’t any different to when the Romans had Glee over setting Christians alight to use as torches in the Colloseum, or the Japanese having Glee over thei persecution of Christians when they closed Japan to Foreingers. [Prior to the Meiji period when they opened it up again].

You expected the teacher to be sad that they converted people?

’Again you are a Christian so you might not fully appreciate how prevalent (and offensive) these kind of behaviours can be.’

Like I keep mentioning, this sort of thing goes more than one way. There are intolerant people in all religions. What you’ve described has happened to people of all different religions by lots of people of all other religions. You just seem to have a bee in your bonnet over Christianity. MS made a post regarding four different religions and you’ve singled one out, but MS was pointing out all of them have problems.

Can you not see how you come across as biased against Christian by going after one group out of all of them?