Dreamer sent me this link "
Forget monogamy and swinging. We're seriously polyamorous" and thought I might like to blog about it.
As per most of the stuff I place on this blog, this is basically my own opinion, and not designed to offend.
After reading the article, I felt that the Polyamorous lacked any serious scientific fact to back up a lot of their claims. (Though I include something a little later on)
I'll tackle what I think is just pure propagenda on behalf of the Poly's:
liken their emergence to the struggle by gays and lesbians for equal rights
Considering that these Poly's have been around for a lot longer than they are making out, it is a bit difficult for them to make a claim like this. Men having mistresses on the side have been around for millenium. The occassional powerful women in history having extra Boyfriends has been around as well, though not normally as socially acceptable as their male equivalents.
Where as gays and lesbians have had to fight against a lot of predjudice and actually change laws in order to get acceptance and rights, I think the poly's trying to claim this sort of thing is just utter non-sense. In the past people were sacked from work, locked up in jail, killed, stoned etc for being gay or lesbian. The statement really cheapens the sort of thing the gay and lesbian community went through to acheive acceptance (and they are still going through it too).
Considering that 'swingers' exist, and don't suffer great persecution, probably shows that society in general would actually be more tolerant to Poly's or at least treat them in the same category as swingers.
I think the problem the poly's are having, is they are trying to distance themselves from 'swingers' where most people would categorise them. The 'polys' sound like they are trying to sound more moral than the swingers, where most people would not differentiate between their morality.
Bennett-MacCubbin, who is in two serious gay relationships, says he has had to come out of the closet twice: first as a homosexual at 16 and three years later as polyamorous too.
I find this example laughable - mainly as I know heaps of friends in Sydney who are gay, and the fact is, multiple relationships exactly like Bennett MacCubbin is describing have existed for years. In the gay community, this sort of thing would not be persecuted against. Most of my gay friends would say that as long as the conditions of the relationship were discussed straight up, there wouldn't be a problem with with being poly - swinger - monogamous or any other.
Most people who don't understand the gay community wouldn't care if he was poly or not. After all, a lot of straight people think all gays are promiscuous anyway, so finding out one had more than one BF wouldn't make them bat an eye-lid. So it leaves me wondering what 'second closet' this guy thinks he is coming out of?
It does result in complicated sexual and emotional patterns.
Which is why I think most people would prefer to avoid this sort of lifestyle. Isn't this the entire arguement most monogamist would employ against poly relationships?
It is monogamists, they say, who live in a fantasy land.
Says who? Says them! No scientific basis! Pure opinion.
I will offer up as a reference a show called 'Brain Sex' which was shown on SBS television in Aussie. Mainly, as I think it should still be a nice accessible reference for most people to get a copy of [DVD / Video]. (As opposed to heaps of scientific studies most of us can't access).
The show went through a lot of scientific evidence regarding the state of normal human beings. Here are some things it found:
- Most women wanted monogamy
- Most man wanted more than one sexual partner in their lives
- Gay men behave like straight men (wanting more than one partner)
- Lesbians behave like straight women (wanting a monogamous relationship)
- In the sixties, the men tried to get women to behave like men - free sex etc. The result was disasterous.
- In the eighties, women tried to get men to behave more like women - Sensitive New Age Guys (SNAGs) etc - Same result.
Conclusion from the show, trying to get one sex to behave like the other just doesn't work.
It seems to me, that the swingers in society are still trying to do the sixties thing. Maybe the Poly's are trying a compromise between the two - on the one hand, there are relationships there, so it is like the monogamy the female craves, while at the same time, there is more than one sexual partner, so there is the multiple partners the male craves.
I think this arguement would probably work better for the poly's than the arguments they put forward themselves. It's possible it hasn't occurred to them, as they are really a group of people trying to justify what they are doing without any form of scientific back up. It might be true that they are unsure of why they are doing it themselves and are just trying to reason it out.
The reasons scientists discovered that women want 'monogamy' is they want a man to hang around and help once the children are born. As such, having one male who is the father of the children gives them a security which is needed. Stability = good chance of survival for the children.
Men, on the other hand, want to propergate their seeds as much as possible. Similar reason to the women's one - survival. Having multiple children to multiple women means that they get a mix of genes and more than one set of baskets for his eggs (so to speak). Greater diversion of genes = greater chance that one will survive to pass on the genes.
They go on to talk about Trust and Jealousy. I have always felt that most relationships revolve around trust. It doesn't matter what sort of relationship you are in - mono, poly, swinger, straight, gay - it all comes down to trust. If you can't trust the one you are with, then why are you with them?
Jealousy is a different issue. How often has a relationship broken up and one person can't let go? Even though it's over, they are still jealous of whoever is with their ex. Even my Ex, after our breakup said she would be extremely jealous if she ever found out I was with someone else. She felt that somehow she still owned me. I don't see jealousy as being any different regardless of the type of relationship. Some people are more jealous than others, and regardless of what sort of relationship they are in, they'll have to learn to control that emotion.
I'll now talk a little about some people I met who were 'swingers' or maybe they consider themselves 'polyamorous'. My friend John used to work in the 'ahem' pr0n industry. He'd appeared in many movies himself and used to make movies. He asked me to appear in a few - mainly as he wanted me to bonk his 'ahem' girlfriend Amy and another friend we both mutally knew (Who will remain anonimous, as she is like me, a non pr0n industry worker).
He told me that they don't just allow anyone into their 'ahem' thing. He and Amy normally have to both Okay anyone they both chose to bonk.
I turned them down, as personally, I do prefer monogamy myself. I expect the same respect from the person I am with, as what they expect me to give. Basically, that means a one on one relationship between me and the girl ... though the polys feel that I am in 'fantasy land' to quote them, the fact is, THAT IS WHAT I WANT. Their 'fantasy land' bit is really just an emotional tool to try to get people to become like them. My friend John was very similar, trying to make me see that 'his way of life' was the 'correct way'. Eventually, I convinced him that he can live his life as he saw fit, but I had to live my life as I saw fit.
Then, I'll throw another real life example up in the air - my father used to cheat on my mother all the time. He used to tell other women that my mother and him had an 'open relationship'. This wasn't true, it was just a line he used so that women who objected to sleeping with him because he was married, could fool themselves into thinking it was okay. I've actually met a lotof guys who use that line, and in everycase, the fact is, the wife/GF etc did not consider themselves in an 'open relationship'. The problems in this case, is the dishonesty on behalf of the men, NOT the type of relationship.
I've met people like John and Amy who really did have an open relationship, and they had their ground rules established well and truly BEFORE the relationship started. My friend Iain is also a good example of this. He lives with his boyfriend Colin, and Iain laid down the ground rules - though they were both BF/BF, they were not restricted to each other. If Iain came home and found Colin in bed with another guy - good on him for scoring. If Colin came on and found Iain in bed with another guy - good on him for scoring. Both knew the rules, and that was how they lived.
It's people like my father etc, who lie in order to fulfill their own selfish desires that are the ones with the real problems. They cheat, then they tell their partners that it was an accident or a moment of weakness etc and then they go out and do it again. That sort of thing just isn't on.
Of course, I have seen another relationship, where a girl came to me as her BF was always cheating on her. The guy had actually been very forward about the fact that their relationship was going to be open. She agreed because she wanted to be with the guy. She beleived that somewhere along the way, her BF would see how much she loved him, that he would change and become monogamous. I told the girl to bring the issue up with her BF, as it was never going to change while she just complained about him behind his back (and really, what right did she have to complain. He'd told her straight out). As result, she told him, they broke up, then they got back together under the exact same circumstances. Fact - you can't change a guy, so don't start a relationship with one thinking you can change them to what you want.
Personally, I think the girl needed to look at her self esteem a little and ask herself if the guy was worth it. If it was, then she needed to accept the relationship as is, otherwise, move on.
Though I am sure (like 99% of the population) that I am capable of bonking a lot of people, I personally chose to be monogamous.
Conclusion:
- I don't see these 'polys' as anything new which hasn't been around before. I think the main thing they are trying to do is differentiate themselves from the 'swingers' and justify themselves to the 'monogomists'.
- If everything is kept above board and transparent before a relationship starts, then people are free to do what they want provided it is all lawful. (Really they are, whether we believe in what they do or not).
- Don't lie in order to get into a relationship, if you want a poly relationship, or a swinger one, then lay the ground rules. If your partner doesn't agree, then you really should think about your relationship. If you can't agree on the relationship, then it isn't going to work.
- Monogamy isn't 'fantasyland', for a group of people who want acceptance for their way of life, they should probably accept that it's not everyones cup of tea. As such, they shouldn't be throwing stones at others, and then demanding that they be accepted.
- [And isn't that the problems with most groups people belong to. They demand equality and then put down all other groups].
- Don't enter a relationship you know you disagree with the groundrules for. You'll never change someone else to fit the image you want them to fit. They are individuals, NOT robots. [Though Robot BF/GF are just around the corner. Japan is still working on it!] :-)
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